7/30/12 Update: This (for some reason) is the most popular post on my blog. I'd love to encourage everyone to explore my site a little further. I typically post streaming links to the movies I review so you can watch it right then. Visiting the sponsors you see on this page is also a great help.Also, don't forget to check out the Large Association Of Movie Blogs. If you love discussing movies, it's the place to go.
Warning: (Obviously) There are spoilers ahead!
Before we get started, here's a link to my original review.
http://dustyonmovies.blogspot.com/2012/04/meeting-evil-2012.html
There's a question mark the title because the ending of the film is subject to any number of equally valid opinions.
The reason I'm addressing the ending is to fill a need. My website stats have shown that many users find their way to my review by googling "Meeting Evil Ending Explained". I didn't go into any detail in the review because I didn't realize it would be a hot topic.
Just before the final scene Richie tells John that he was hired by John's wife to kill him. They were in some financial difficulty and she had taken out a life-insurance plan that would've netted her big bucks. In the ensuing battle Richie has been killed and left for dead in a hole full of rain-water. The police believe strongly that Richie is telling the truth about John's wife, but he refuses to believe it. He tells the police not to question her. The final scene sees the couple in bed, as John turns out his light, his eyes are staring directly at his wife, conveying a sense of unease. In the darkness we hear Richie's signature whistling that leads into the credits.
My arguments henceforth work under the assumption that the whistling is not coming from John.
One possibility is that John simply doesn't believe Richie. This guy has been on a murder spree and excels at being manipulative. John (and I) think Richie was just trying to turn them against each other. The looks of distrust in the bedroom along with Richie's whistling on the soundtrack is just showing the viewer that Richie's influence is lingering beyond his death.
My favorite theory is very similar to the first. Except that I believe Richie was of a supernatural origin. If the story about his wife's insurance scheme are untrue, then there's no other explanation for Richie's deep knowledge of John's life. He knows everything about the guy and predicts his every decision. Basically, I think Richie is a demon. Further supporting this argument is the murder spree. A contract killer who's looking to make money doesn't want to be noticed. Richie though, makes sure that he gets the attention of every person in town. Richie also seems to just appear out of thin air. There's no back story. It's like he never existed until the moment he meets John. I'm sure you remember the child with the dog who seemingly always stands in the road. The dog is violently aggressive towards Richie and no one else. The dog cliche turns up in 100's of sci-fi and horror films. It would make sense that the director uses that to give us a subtle clue into Richie's demonic nature. If you look at the movie from this perspective it becomes the antithesis of "It's a Wonderful Life". After all, in a roundabout way, Richie made John's life better.
The problem with the supernatural theory of "Meeting Evil" is explaining Richie's death. Demon's don't die right? Well, I choose to believe that Richie was faking his death so he can move on to his next mission. There's also a chance that he's just inhabiting someone else's body. Or he's just a being of pure evil who can materialize a body at will. There are no wrong answers here.
There's some evidence supporting that John's wife really was trying to have him killed. The police seem partial to the theory. Plus, she had a nasty argument with one of the police officers. She could have been trying to hide something. The best evidence is that Richie is an "honest" person. Everything he says is to manipulate those around him, but do you recall him actually telling a lie? In fact, brutal honesty seems to be his modus operandi.
There seem to be others wondering if it were John whistling at he end instead of Richie. I'm not for that theory, but it's certainly interesting. Richie warns John that they aren't all that different. Richie is trying to get John to let loose and follow a path of evil, an evil that Richie claims was there all along. In this scenario Richie was absolutely honest about everything. Now that John has the information about his wife's plans, he may just be planning to deal with her himself. That would be a good explanation for him sending away the cops.
So, for all of you going crazy trying to figure out this ending, just chill out. I firmly believe that the filmmakers were purposely ambiguous. An ending like that can provide hours of discussion and debate among friends and fellow movie-lovers. Debating something as trivial as a movie ending is actually quite fun for me. That's really what I'm doing in this blog post, having a one person debate. I like one person debates, I'm not much of a mass-debater.
But she tried to put that big knife in him? I mean he was choking her but there are less permanent ways of stopping the choke. Knife to the arm rather than buried in his chest? She seemed to want him dead there? I think they did the old "we wanted to leave it to the viewers interpretation" but added this to give you the idea she might have done it. For me, this scene was another reaction from a character that just wasn't believable.
ReplyDeleteI hated this movie.
You hated it, but seem to have put some thought into it. So at least they achieved something.
Deletehes the devil they both asked him to kill there spouses so they could both collect the insurance obviously they both wanted to kill each other in the end.
Deleteshe probably did hire that guy to kill him , initially thats why she tried to defend herself by trying to kill him with the knife. However, after she saw the husbands reaction i guess even the evil and the devil backed out , that means she mustve felt shes making the worst decision by even thinking of killing her husband who loves her and believes in her so much that even when a randomn man comes up with the truth about them he ends up trust his wife and letting her be. However, in the ending i guess they tried to show they John actually knew his wife wanted to kill him , however if she was showing the devil inside her he tried to show what love and family is all about and that if she really had to kill him she can still do it . He wants to show her he knows and hopes either she never thought about that or even if she made the mistake she would instantly feel bad and he knew she would never get sleep over the guilt of even thinking about such a thing. In the end he just showed how much he loved his family and that even if he had to die just so that his wife and family could live he would do that .
DeleteI believe that Jackson's character did indeed represent the devil as Dusty stated could have been a possibility, and I believe that the protagonist's character represent the average American (or middle class Western Worlder, to be more accurate) and his current state of affairs: unsurmountable debt, detached from your kids and family, extra-marital affairs going both ways, substance abuse, etc. He gets visited by the Devil, who originally intended to kill him, but who instead sees something in him (the "Potential", shall we say?) and who proceeds to spend the rest of the movie not only subjecting our Average Middle Class Guy to slaughter after slaughter, tragedy after tragedy, but DESENSITIZING HIM TO IT!
DeleteAnd, because repetition of a stimulus (be it an idea, an order issued to you, a punishment, or a lie...) will eventually be accepted by the participant/victim receiving that stimulus, we can see why John might be whistling the Devil's tune at the end.
At the end of the movie, only two people were in that bedroom, and the director made sure to show us Richie's dead body after the fight, so its safe to conclude that the whistling had to come from either John or his wife.
It was John.
Somewhere in between the devil telling him the full truth about his wife and plungig a knife in devil's chest, our Hero jumped ship, and decided to sing a different tune and uh, carry Lucifer's torch (puns intended lol).
He didn't want the cops to take his wife because he wanted to deal with her himself.
The movie, at a subliminal level, is a story about the corruption of mankind, and the sin that pervades everywhere, including the happy home.
PS special note to the cops "volunteering" themselves to watch the house even after the danger was gone (as far as they could tell at the time), citing that it was - and I quote - "For your protection". Lol. This was quickly followed by a close-up of the driver-door of a squad car pulling up to the house, with its paint reading "State Police".
Those of you who see it, see it. Those of you who don't...your eyes are wide shut.
The truth is we're living in a Cabin in the Woods. A prison. You can't see it, or touch it, but you can feel it, Neo. You feel it when you go to work, when you pay your taxes ...
*insert Morpheus smile*
Money isn't everything. We can't live our lives seeing everything with that green-tint... you play by those rules, you'll be trapped your whole life and not even realize it. If the little japanese kids in the classroom could get rid of a poltergeist (sent by labcoat scientists with CIA-looking badges, headed by 2 CIA-looking dudes...) with a few John Lennon-like songs and some Gandhi tactics (RIP to them both) think of what WE could do if we freed Neo. But unfortunately, only as ONE, can we free Neo.
There is no spoon. There never was.
You sure it was the devil? i mean he clearly died in the water i think it was just some guy who was really hired by his wife to kill him i understand your thought but it seemed like you went to far in the rabbit hole thats why sam kept egging on from the start to wake up and see that ur wife doesn't love you but sam seen the pure love in him thats what made it difficult for him to kill him like damn this is fucked up idk
DeleteI have another take. I believe upon Richie's death the evil transferred itself into someone else (unsure whom, maybe the head detective). I do think that Richie got John to open his eyes about his wife. I think that John realizes that his daughter really isn't his and that is why he is in her room just before the last scene. I think John plans to handle his wife on his own terms.
ReplyDeleteThat's plausible. Maybe the evil jumped into John when they were fighting. The fact that he was finally willing to kill Richie could have meant that he was letting evil in.
DeleteI guess you could back that up by the head detectives unusual behaviour at the end saying "i'm hungry lets get fat" followed by strange look from his partner. Certainly a insensitive thing to say right after a massive killing spree, as head detective he should know better.
DeleteJust another note the scene when Richie shows up at the car when Johns talking to Tammie, Richie mentions the fat ass receptionist showing no courtesy (which seems to be an occurring motif, note as well the female officer interrogating Johns wife is referred to as a fat ass, showing no courtesy to her in her own house) which is kinda ironic as the head detective says "lets get fat" which isnt exactly showing courtesy towards the families of the dead and at least four officers in his district that have also been killed, not exactly something a man in his position would want to be heard saying considering he's most likely going to be involved in the clean up and police media statements. Whenever this motif occurs Richie is some how involved or there. Being the head detective kinda seems like a top candidate for Richie to move onto, what more could a devil want but to be the guy with all the evidence and witnesses to his own massacre at his fingertips. Besides why would he poses John his part of the story is just about at an end whereas Richie seems to prefer being at a 'crossroads' in peoples lives.
DeleteTheres also a few contradictions in his character that hint towards him being supernatural and not just a sociopath i suppose the biggest one to note was when he had the chance to kill john outside his house, but a little girl was there and he chose not to this lead to the assumption maybe he has a rule like no killing kids but this is proved wrong when he strings up the cop, old lady and little boy upside down ( also occurs allot in biblical representations of demons/evil/hell ) this proves that he has no such rule and judging on what we come to learn about Richie killing a little girl in an open neighbourhood doesn't seem like quite the stretch for him considering he was about to kill john in an open street. The little girl seems to be watching over John with her little dog (dog mans best friend dog backwards = God, just saying). In the scene at the old house where John looks out over the field out the window we hear angelic music and we see what we assume is Tammie calling to john, however she appears blurred in the shot you may also notice the little girl is wearing a white dress. The blurriness of the shot makes it hard to tell if she has a coat or the exact colour of her hair but it left me wondering. Its also weird that she was out after dark outside a house with police on the front step when earlier we hear the shootings have been reported on the news. Who would let their daughter out knowing there's a killer on the loose and why were none of the officers noticing a little girls by herself walking around seems odd. Theres a couple of other little points here and there but thats about the jist of my point.
Final conclusion i think both arguments are correct Richie is supernatural and Johns wife probably did want John dead. I doubt that was John or his wife whistling at the end. If john wanted her gone under his terms he wouldn't do it so soon after such a traumatic event which has gained massive attention and he wouldn't be the brightest if he hinted he planned to do anything by whistling Richie tune.
I would agree with you. For one thing, even if Richie felt he could not pull the trigger on John, he did not have to pull him out of the way of the truck at the bar. Clear conscious for "change-of-heart hitman", dead John, happy wife, paid hitman (because he could have easily lied and said he pushed John into the truck to the wife).
DeleteThe bar scene is interesting for 2 other thoughts:
Richie watches the cop car pass and mentions it is going to rain later. "We better hurry, it looks like rain"
The other is that Richie is trying to stay with John, 23 minutes in, look at the center screen, behind John; Richie's car is parked in the field. The way the scene is shot, is no accident we see his car.
DeleteMe and my husband have been together since I was 14 and I felt like I couldn't live life without him. I never thought about cheating and then 2 years ago we stopped talking and we have 6 kids. I thought that we would get over it. I have (over the years) plenty of opportunities to cheat and I never have. Then one day i caught my husband with another woman in hotel, when i asked him he bulled me and threw me out his house, i never did anything wrong to him i only tried to make him changed and all i got was injuries from him, I loved him so much. I never intended to hurt my husband I never knew this will happen to me but now it has and I have to deal with it. so a friend of mine told me how she got her husband back and she told me who to contact if i really need my husband back, i contacted the spell caster to cast a spell on my husband so that he can change to a good man and so that he can take me back, fortunately for me all my request happened in 3 days, it is a big surprise to me that prophetharry@ymail.com can bring back lovers in 3 days
Blanca Warlord
The detectives did say that she was having a relationship with the guy working on the house. He admitted it during interrogation. That makes me believe that she might have hired Ritche to kill John. That and the fact that she knew John had an affair with Tammy. Plus she seemed disappointed when John came up for air after the fight having survived it
ReplyDeleteThat's an intelligent observation. I didn't consider the contractor when writing my piece. I know some people hate the movie, but inspiring this sort of debate has to be considered a triumph.
DeleteI totally agree with her looking disappointed when John popped up outta the muddy water hole in the back.
Delete
Delete"It felt good to have my lover back. i never waited for her to come on her own rather i went in search of a solution for my problem, dr.marnish helped me to unite i and my lover after one of the worst stages of our relationship and finally i came to the spot of getting her back which was awesome. dr.marnish@yahoo.com has a real Magic, his magic is real!!!! dr.marnish is excellence. .
(Richie
At the very end when the 2 police officers are leaving the house...the old male police officer says to the other 1, Lets go get fat. After hearing this the lady police officer realizes something and looks back at the house. Then the scene cuts to show the kids sleeping and the kids are fat... implying that they are not John's kids.
ReplyDeleteLol, that sounds like quite a stretch. I'm not sure how that implies they are John's kids.
DeleteThe daughter is very obvious not John's as she looks more mexican than american like her brother. The wife also covered the son's ears instead of the daugher's which can be a sign.
DeleteEarlier in the film John's wife verbally blasted the female cop and kept calling her fat. When the male cop said "Let's get fat," that reminded the female cop of the earlier verbal assault delivered by John's Wife. She looked back at the house probably thinking of how insulting John's wife had been (very aggressive and sharp). I interpret this as evidence highlighting the fact that John's wife has a really dark side, hence did hire a hit-man to kill John.
DeleteSpot on!!!!
DeleteThe daughter is fat!!hello imlying the fact of the wife's bitterness towards her family not covering her daughters ears so she would be certain to hear, and the fact she was calling a well toned person "the detective" fat...gives obvious explination of richie being truthful but was richie a figment of john's personality...being everything that john wasnt having that backbone that john obviously lacked and when richie died gave john the aggression and personality trait he needed to get back at his cold hearted bitch of a wife. hint the whistle..
DeleteHamza that's exactly what my thoughts were. It almost made me feel like the Det. is the father to the girl. But like someone else stated she looked a bit Mexican. John obviously came to realization that something was up when he was starring at his " daughter " sleeping... either way. Moral of the story is typical American women taking advantage of the nice guy they always scream isn't out there. Get the house she wants, bleed him for all he's got, dry if need be. All while getting plenty of "attention" on the side. Turning him evil. Ritchie is just the voice inside of any guys head going thru this shit.
DeleteI have been with my husband for almost 9 years, and 1 year ago my husband entered into an affair. I was so lost and confused, he was in love with the person he was having an affair with, but i could not let my husband divorce me because i love him. I just don't feel like i can leave my husband, I just don't know what to do, i've tried to destroy the affair but she is my husband co-worker so it is hard, and i end up caving on how to get my husband back. I just don't' know what to do and how to make my marriage work so that he don't' continue to cheat. And then one day... i ran into a spell caster with the email prophetharry@ymail.com, after using his spell my husband came back to me, i truly appreciate this spell work from prophetharry
DeleteAlexia
i think his wife did want him dead remember when richie had the gun ready to kill him in the beginning but the little girl stopped him.
DeletePonder this... Richie and all of Richies actions (killings) and the cops were all in Johns Head. he got irritated in the beginning when a car drove past real fast (richies car?) and all the other bills, pool guy,ect.. Went inside, thought about the pool guy and had a mental breakdown, creating Richie and this whole story in his head. When he worked it out in his head, Richie died. thats why they are in this together whether he likes it or not.
Delete
DeleteMe and my boyfriend were seriously in love for 3 years and we were planning to get married but one day he came to my house and told me he was no longer interested in our relationship simply because he was dating another lady who promise to buy him a car and to sponsor their wedding. And i suffered a heartbreak for five months and i was not tired of loving him. One faithful day as i was browsing through the internet, i saw a testimony on how a spell caster helped a man to get back his wife after two years of losing his wife because he was no longer having a job. through this Email dr.marnish@ymail.com, i sent an email to dr.marnish contact him for help and surprisingly my boy friend came back 3 days after the help of the spell caster. and now we are happily back together. He is the most trusted, genuine and real love spell caster
wendy Buckler
I think it was John whistling at end he has snapped his wifie is toast she did hire him I think too much thoughts going into this demons and devils? cmon. that's ridiculous it's a simple old murder for hire that didn't work out too well that's all
ReplyDeleteyour an idiot
DeleteIf it was simple murder for hire, than why didnt he simply kill him.
Deleterichi said i saw something in your eyes, he felt sorry for him and didn't wana kill him, and kinda wanted to help him be a man and not turn his back again
DeleteSince when do Contract killers have a heart? They kill...that is all.
DeleteContract killers always have a heart to start will, but what do they do with their conscience is a second thing.
DeleteThis Richie guy hates certain people and doesnt walk away but ... finishes evey discussion.......because he can, hes trained to do so perfectly no?
Just look at the way John is eating himself.....
HE is the one whistling trust me.....
After the light went out, John.... hes finishing his wife.
THATS WHY HIS WIFE IS SOOOOO NERVOUS...shes affraid of JOHN
Why does someone actually have to be whistling? First of all, that's not a female whistle (pitch is much too low). Second, the tone of the whistle is exactly the same as Richie's. I'm quite certain it is, at least in the recording (I'm a singer, so I have a good ear for these things). My personal opinion is that the whistle is part of the soundtrack, to remind us that although Rich is dead, his words (and convictions) are not. They will always be on the couple's mind.
DeleteAre you guys forgetting that while Richie was sitting in the living room waiting for John to come down stairs. The wife had no clue who he was. She was obviously nervous TOWARDS A STRANGER. There's more to it than that. My assumption on the actual plot is in reply to the post above.
DeleteOr maybe she was nervous because she knew who he was.Remember she was looking at the knife in the kitchen the whole time
DeleteHmm... well the kids certainly didn't look either the mother or father, one was mexican ffs lol. but yeah i sort of believe richie that the wife hired him to kill the husband, its confirmed she was having an affair and obviously a thing between the husband and that other chick so i think when push comes to shove the wife took actions of her own and starting having sex with the pool guy...think at the end the whistling doesnt have any remarkable reason for it. just a way to end it. dont think it was either the wife or husband. if anything probably the wife... but iono i sort of want to go back and see how the wife reacted when she saw richie at the door... if im not mistaken she did call him officer.... who knows maybe she never saw him before and just spoke over the phone... makes me want to go back to that scenes and see how she reacts to everything
ReplyDeleteRichie stated at the dinner table that in fact Johns wife did not ever meet him but spoke on the phone.....
DeleteI know these kind of movies tend to leave some people let down but it's the movies that keep you thinking long after the experience are the ones that can become anything you want them to be.....
Also, I know from experience and multiple references that dogs tend to hate black people, so the dog evidence from your demon theory should be negated. Interesting ideas though!
ReplyDeleteLol. I really can't tell if you're kidding.
DeleteDogs don't hate black people it's just that if they are not used to being around them sometimes they are thrown off by the different skin color. I moved to Georgia with my lab and he had never really seen a black person before and freaked out the first time he did but once he got used to being around them he loved them just like he loved everyone....
DeleteI thought dogs were color blind...???
DeleteI'm sorry, but that is THE most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Dogs ARE color blind! They don't know whether a person is black, white, green or yellow. That is just ignorance and has nothing to do with the actual climax or resolution of the film.
DeleteRichie never wants attention... if he wanted attention he would have left people alive, Notice how everyone died, everywhere? Not a single witness left alive... Thats hitman shit. Your takin it to far.
DeleteJust had to thrown this in....although color blind, there are still distinctions between shades. I personally do not think the dog's "reaction" had anything to do with the skin color however.
DeleteWow!! Really? U guys ate being serious. And yes dogs are color blind people..please let's not mk this about a race issue..smh ..look.some of u have interesting lik.TD..its hard to say necause everybody's story and reply could actually be the ending.. except the dog and the black people comment..lol but in the end of the movie Idk if it was john or the background starting with the whistling ..I think they both know about the cheating and no one hired richie ..I think richie was just plain nuts and just wanted to go on a killing spree and happen to look at the name on the letters that john threw away and that's how he got their names..and knew information on john!! I think the hubby and Wifey were just showing how shocked they were at what happened..I mean how would you look after going through all of that? Would u b smiling? I think not!! I just love to read everyone's reviews!!
DeleteAnd what about dogs in Africa where everyone's black?Do these dogs hate their owners?Or does this only apply to American dogs?What if you took an American dog to Africa?Would it hate everyone?Lame argument.
DeleteEveryone in Africa is black? Hmm, last time I checked there were also Arabs, Europeans, and Indians in Africa. Dogs don't naturally hate a particular race of people. It's the dog OWNERS who hate particular races of people and pass that hatred into the learned behavior of their dogs. DUH!
DeleteYall must of forgot sam/richie told the wife that they could use the story to get paid she replied she don't want to be paid for others suffering he was actually trying to get her to change her mind on killing her husband but after she said that he knew that she did not love him at all she just wants him dead.
Deleteclue to the movie: "Take away everything a man's got, that's when he'll snap"
ReplyDeleteimo, that's what happens in the end
I believe John was about to snap in the beginning after his wife takes the kids out for the day he is out back staring at the pool leaning on the shovel. He appears he is about to have a major breakdown but is interrupted by Richie ringing the doorbell.....if Richie wouldn't have shown up their is no telling what John might have done....
ReplyDeleteOn the matter of Richie being a Demon of sorts it makes sense when he is about to put John in the trunk and the girl is standing there with her dog. It's not just the fact that he was interrupted by her but it's the look he gives her or the dog....almost as if she might have been an angel of sorts..........the look Richie gives them is almost like " you got me this time but I will do what I want"
Brilliant post Hiwatter! I forgot about that beginning pool scene...also, Richie didn't mind killing anyone...he killed that kid in the country, but left the girl alone...
DeleteThe girl did say when Richie asked her was her dog good that it bites, which probably signifies that the dog, like all other small dogs was just a little shit in general. He actually seemed to take a liking to the dog because of its attitude towards him.
Deletei had thought about the angle vs devil outlook as well when i first saw how he gave that look of disgust towards the girl and her dog, but how he acts towards her later when he is in the police car doesn't really justify that theory though, but good to know i wasn't the only one that thought about it!
Delete"It's not just the fact that he was interrupted by her but it's the look he gives her or the dog....almost as if she might have been an angel of sorts"
DeleteThis was my thought exactly. I believe that the little had to have some significant symbolism. She was always outside with that dog. She was always watching the house. I believe she was a guardian angel. (Not in the sense of actively protecting the family, but passively)
Okay, first I'm going to debunk the angel/demon theory. The little girl flipped off the cop, not an angelic attribute.
DeleteNext, I think it's fairly obvious that the wife wanted him dead. Here's why:
1. She tried to stab him with the knife. If you pause the movie right before she goes to stab him, you can see a VERY hateful look on her face. This same look is still there a few seconds later if you pause it again, right before he takes the knife from her.
2. Right after John comes up from the water, he looks over at her and she looks away, then down as her hands move toward her face. A wife who loves her husband would have run into the water to help or retrieve him, regardless of his condition. At the very least, she would have screamed for him and sighed for relief when she saw that he was okay.
At the end, when she was in the bed, she looked like she was about to soil herself. I laughed. I also noticed the look on his face as he turned out the light and after he did, when thunder struck, he was looking over at her. Personally, I think he might take her out but to each his own.
This probbaly isn't worth mentioning.. but I think the kids are his. There is no real evidence in the movie to support that she was cheating on him before he cheated on her. Just a thought.
Lastly, as for the whistling, I don't think it really matters if it was him or a recording of Richie's voice. The message is the same.
thats all stupid ideas talking about how the girl was a angel. if she was why didnt she stop him from killing every1 else in the movie come on now
DeleteThere are a bunch of speculations you can make, but the most logical and believable one would be her hiring Richie to kill John. For starters, Richie is an honest man, secondly, shes having an affair with John, thirdly, John was failing on his job and she was worried she wouldnt have money (Im just guessing) and come on, Richie knew alot about John, thats a hitman's job. This is the most logical. Richie is like a demon, but hes actually just human. The whistle was John, he heard Richie whistle it a few times, it might have been stuck on his head. Plus, John was so eager to send those cops home early as possible too. Too many points for this theory.
ReplyDeleteHow will Richie knows she was having an affair?
Deletebecause richie was hired by the pool guy who was having an affair with her,
DeleteI think I saw a few hints making me feeling comfortable with the theory that the wife was hiring Ritchie as a hit man. When John is helping Ritchie with his car in the beginning, Ritchie suddenly draws his gun and opens the trunk a little bit more, as if he is going to force John crawling in there – but there is the little girl with the dog and she is a possible witness. So he takes John with him in his car – maybe Ritchie wants to kill him elsewhere, but then there happens something in Ritchie’s mind (Ritchie says in the end of the movie, that he saw something in Johns eyes – I think he means Johns kindness) and he decides to give John a chance and to break his kindness by showing him that evil exists (as Ritchie is saying in the movie). But for me the most important hint was the reaction of John’s wife as he survives the fight with Ritchie. You see her face a few seconds and she is definitely upset and mournful about it. She tries to hide it by lowering her eyes, but (Camera is going to John`s face) her husband is getting aware of it. And in this moment his kindness is breaking. That`s why he sends the police officers away, cause he wants to do it the evil way now. I guess that it is John`s whistling in the end and he is either killing his wife the same night or he is taking revenge over the next years by driving her crazy and letting her live in fear.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think the kids are John’s kids, because the wife is feeding them to be fat, because she hates them as much as she hates John. I mean which mother who loves her kids would give them such a gigantic portion of noodles, although they are overweighed already??? But the cookies she backed for other people are low fat – errr, extremely suspicious, I think. And maybe that`s it what the female cop recognizes in the end – that the mother is a horrible psychopath. Plus she closes only the boy`s ears cause she “wants him to know how to behave with the ladies” – she just wants him to be as kind and thereby defenseless as her husband John – and that is also horrible psychopathic.
I thinking the same with you.
DeleteNow that really just a critical thinking and deep observation.
i agree with some of your thoughts, but i'm still not sure about the kids..about the "fat" thing..what is it about??
Deletethis movie makes me really curious and think hard of few ending explanation possibility..
i hate this movie as much as i love it, lol
i enjoyed the movie though
Before I read the comments on this page I was not one minute thinking about that the kids could not be Johns. So I started to ask myself about the kids. Are they or are they not John’s kids?
DeleteBut I found no reason why they should not, like they have extremely red hair while their mother is blond and John has brown hair. (Ok both of the kids are fat and the parents not – but this could be also cause of recessive genes from the grandparents)
So I asked myself if there was a hint in the movie, that the kids are John`s. And I think there is.
Under the premise that John`s wife hates her husband (and I really think she does) I draw the conclusion that she hates her children only in the case of John`s fatherhood. But why do I think she hates her children?
It was because she is feeding them. It was this gigantic portion of noodles I mentioned and the combination with her statement about the low fat cookies (but they are for other peoples) she was offering the female cop. So she does not really give shelter to her kids and I`m willing to go this far and saying, that she is punishing them cause she hates them. John somehow destroyed her life or her plans of life (being rich, living in a perfect house etc. – she really seems that kind of superficial to me), so she started an affair or maybe affairs. But why not just leaving John? Getting divorced? 1. Cause they have kids together. So the kids became a reason to stay with John and so this circumstance became a reason to hate her own kids and this became a reason to feed them like she is doing. 2. Cause killing him means getting the money from the live insurance.
I think it`s a kind of projecting her hate for John onto the offspring off his launch – so that`s it about the “fat thing”
In the end John didn't answer whether yes or no when the wife says, "everything's going to be okay, isn't John?" John is turning evil.
ReplyDeleteThere is a clear giveaway about Richie's demonic nature:
ReplyDeleteWhen John and his wife are fighting and Richie comes over and gets stabbed - look at his pointy yellow prosthethic teeth.
So the end of the movie has to possible solutions:
1) John is posessed and he will kill his wife
2) John has seen the evil in the world and on his own account he will kill his wife
Or John is not evil, rather good. He is sticking by his wife's side through everything, yet to her disatisfaction. She will now have to live with the man and children she hates, and that in and of itself is punishment.
DeleteI still somehow think Richie was all a figment of John's imagination, but then you can cancel aforementioned theory.
Well ha always has that chick that was so hot for him.
Deleteokay I just re watched it. There is no demonic significance and I will prove it here.
ReplyDeleteAfter Richie comes to the door dressed as a cop, and he is sitting in the living room with the wife.
He asks her "did John explain what happened?"
She says "no, no but you know, it's been all over the news so.."
He responds "well who knows, maybe you can sell this story to the papers, you know, people love a good tale like that"
She responds, "oh, I would hate to profit off of somebody else's tragedy."
he nods, "that's why i'm here actually"
She get very uncomfortable and replies, "your making me nervous... officer, Stevens? ...I should go check on the oven."
Okay so it is quite obvious. her plan backfired. She did want him dead, she was cooking 3 pork chops or whatever, not 2, she looked at the knife in the kitchen before walking back to the living room, then did try to kill him during the dinner.
I think the whistle was John and the reason for him whistling was because he knew what she did, wanted her to know that he knew she wouldn't be stupid enough to do try it again.
In the bedroom, when he was looking at the kids, i think he noticed for the first time that the kids weren't his.
The fat explanation someone else mentioned before was interesting. The wife may have also had a plan to get rid of the kids as well somehow. so many things are open to interpretation but from the dialogue, i think its pretty blatantly obvious the wife hired wanted John dead.
Isn´t it strange then, that the wife turned off the light first? She knows her husband quite well, she knows he knows that someone thinks she wanted to kill him. Why would she go to bed with him and calmly turn off her light?
DeleteAnother hint/clue that perhaps shows that his wife did indeed want him dead, is when the sherif said to him at the end: "What other explanation can you have?" and all he said was: "she's my wife", meaning that even john can't think of another explanation
ReplyDeleteThe only puzzling thing and perhaps a bit out of "normality", is the fact that Richie went nuts killing all those people.
But at the end of the day, as dusty said, they wanted the end to be thought provoking anyway, so no theory is 100% accurate, they all have some inconsistencies. and I did enjoy the movie though I would have preferred a clear ending.
Thanks for this review
Richie's teeth really changed in the stab scene. Compare it with the next scene...
ReplyDeleteOk, it's OBVIOUS that Richie was hired by Johns wife to kill John. He lures John out and away from his house, pulls out a gun and opens his boot. It was the ultimate reveal twist when Richie tells John at the dinner table. I was picturing Richie as some demonic, maybe Grim Reaper, supernatural character. Richie says it himself. "I kill people who are already dead". Hes a hitman. However he notices Johns kindness and how it blinds him from the evil in the world, as John always thinks things are going to 'work themselves out'. The killings I believe were a kind of 'shock therapy' for John so he can open his eyes to the evil surrounding his life.
ReplyDeleteI do believe John finally 'snapped' at the end, and planned to kill his wife, which links to the quote "Take away everything a man has, that's when he'll snap".
He lost his career, savings, house. Then finding out his wife is a psychopathic liar and that his kids aren't his, well thats everything he has.
I went and watched the ending again I confirm the look on the wifes face IS disappointment, what kinda wife would drop her head and look away from her husband after he survives near death? as for the whistling in the end think about where richie died and that after he was shot both he AND john were underwater for a brief moment, john comes up out of the water,... BAPTIZED, a new man.
ReplyDeleteBrilliant observation!
DeleteCool movie. Some points:
ReplyDelete1. there's the life insurance taken out on both
2. there's the gun/trunk moment at the start
3. there's the comment that richie was going to bundle him in the car, drive him out to the sticks and kill him
4. there's the kindness comment (although it was the little girl and dog that saved him initially, he could have stopped himself killing him any other time)
5. the wife's reactions throughout the film
6. the contractor affair
It all adds up, clear as day, that the film is what it says it is on the tin: she hired a contract killer who was clearly deranged from the word go (what contract killer IS sane?), and the rest of the problems in the movie are plot holes. That's right - plot holes exist in nearly every film, particularly lower budget ones.
But having said that, I think the makers were deliberately vague about a lot of points and left them open to interpretation. I have high standards however I'd like to give this movie a healthy 6.5 out of 10. Which means I enjoyed it.
It's great seeing someone comment on this post as something other than "Anonymous". 6.5 out of 10 is fair.
DeleteI still think Richie is more than an assassin. A professional assassin would try desperately to not be noticed. Richie does the opposite. Even if you chalk up the mass killing spree as a one-off moment of insanity, there's still the fact that he drives a loud muscle car. If I were an assassin, I'd drive a rusty escort and dress in jeans and t-shirt. So if Richie is just a hitman, he's the worst ever. I think his seeming omniscience points to something more.
Heres my explanation:
ReplyDeleteJohn has died recently (probably a suicide after losing his job)and dosent know hes dead yet..Hence the movie really starts and ends at the big hole in the ground.
Ritchie is the devil trying to win him over and get John to join him... hence the comments "we are more alike than you think " and both drinking scoth on rocks etc etc.. Ritchie tries to show John how other people have wrong to him and again and again tries to get out the evil in him...like the scene where he goads him to snatch his gun in the car. Also recollect that in one scene Ritchie says that he only kills people who are already dead..The girl with the Dog is the guardian angel or embodiment of good trying to protect John but not interfering...
When Ritchie goes into the store/pub/rundown house etc he is just collecting souls of other people who have just died.The Police are just smaller demons who run around following the Devil. They probably guard the newly dead to make sure the devil tries to convert them first and god dosent get a chance. We never really see Ritchie kill the two guards at Johns house..because they just let him in..Also in one scene we see the girl/dog/God give the finger to the policemen.The wife and kids are not Johns own and just devils servants who have been hired to play a role to convince John to turn to the devil.. The Policewoman however is representing god and hence gets a bad treatment from Johns pretend wife/devils emissary.
when the police come and shoot Ritchie in the hole ..Its the policewoman who does it and Johns pretend wife feels disappointed as God seems to have won... If it was the policeman who shot first he would have shot John...You can hear the whistling sound after Ritchie is shot in the Hole as the Devil message that he hasnt given up and will give another shot to converting John... In the wnd we see the policewoman and Policeman going different ways and the policewoman still concerned as John dosent seem to have made a decision yet and is still left behind with his pretend wife/ devils emissary... Hence the whistling sound in the end...
Actually, many of the characters seems to have a good/bad counterpart in the movie:
Delete1) Johns Daughter/Son.. Wife covers soms ears to keep him good while Girl open to evil
2)Ritchie / Girl with Dog
3)Johns wife / Johns Girlfiriend
4)Policeman/Policewoman
Come to think of it... we never really saw Ritchie Kill anyone in the movie!
DeleteHe didnt have to, they were already dead!...His police henchmen were just collecting the physical bodies while he had already taken control of their souls... Of course Ritchie knew how to cruise past the police easily with a sign !
Wow. Just wow.
Deletefinally someone who isnt retarded it is sooo obvious richie is the devil at the start of the movie he is asking the devil to come. and when they sit down for dinner he tells them they both talked to him and asked him to kill them. plus he is pure evil not just a hit man.
DeleteI agree. I also think that this is purgatory. The beginning scene by the hole, representing the grave. John's anguish on his face, tells me that he just did something he should not have done, killed himself. After killing himself, the first to show up is the devil, who's car just happened to stall right in front of John's house. A car called a GTO, known as a goat in slang. Children are not children in this story. The little girl with the dog is a guardian angel. John's children (actually not his children) may represent the soul of the wife demon, and the soul of John. The final scene by the hole, when the angel woman cop shoots the devil, watch their faces. Then watch again when John is being looked at by the para-medic. Their faces tell the tale. The angel woman cop turns and has a half smile, while the wife demon and male cop demon do NOT look happy. In this purgatory, there are demons, and angels and souls. Some may not be demons, but souls working with demons. People that just go away and we never see again; The guy in the gas station with a look of anguish on his face much like John's, then John's boss from the bar scene, then the two cops on the porch in the end. Ritchie never kills anyone that we see. The closest he comes to it is when he runs down the semi truck driver walking on the road toward John. Even then the girl stoops and says he's alive. Ritchie is harvesting souls. The boy that ran into the cornfield gets harvested, but the affair girlfriend does not get harvested, and she runs into the same cornfield. She is an angel. The story is telling us that in purgatory there is still a change to redeem yourself, and that angels and demons are there to influence you. In the end John is still not won over to either side. The whistling is Ritchie, because the angel cop could not kill him, only vanquish him for the time being.
DeleteAlso, John doesn't get "harvested" right away because he had the guts to slap the hat off of Richie's head in the beginning, showing that he has the willpower to stand up to the Devil.
DeleteAbout "we never really saw Ritchie Kill anyone". The first "killing scene" on the gas station... John saw people running all over the gas station market...and...on the road, Richie ran over the truck guy and smashed his head.
ReplyDeletePretty obvious killing scene to me ;)
PS, sorry for anonymouse, but I dont have google or any other account.
And also...for those that are saying that the Girl with the dog is an angel/good character.
DeleteWhy would an angel showed middle finger to the policeman (happens at around 42 minute in the movie), thats not really nice to do :)
Ok I am just having fun with the script here but lets explore a bit more..., so ritchie was taking John on a unknown trip and kept saying that they were close.. you can guess close to what if Ritchie is the devil... God has no way to stop them with the devil guiding them from the back seat...so what does he do send a angel pretending to smash and stop them.. of course Ritchie cannot kill him but takes no time to smash and slow this guy.... no wonder hes not dead and Ritchie doesnt waste time to finish him off...and in the gas station we just saw hurrying legs ..not Ritchie killing anyone..
DeleteNext , John couldnt call back for a long time and when he tried to call home the voice was very distant /faint and with lot of static...looked like nobody could hear him... One other point he subconsciously knew that Ritchie was the devil or something was wrong with him, which is why he never took a favour from Ritchie ( except when ritchies car burnt him first).. if he had asked a favour from the devil he would have been in debt to him !...probably why he didnt ask Ritchie for his phone to call and kept looking around for other phones... This would also explain why he couldnt refuse the devil after inviting him over to dinner to his home ( or what he thought was his home)...see hoe fast his wife took the cue and started serving the devil (of course she would)... and how mildly she hit him with the golf club.... one last point who keeps a large jar full of unmelting ice cubes ready on a side table unless its a imaginary home populated with things that you always wished to have......
continuing on the same track... Ritchies car number starts with D6... As to the little girl, remember when we first see her there are two signs right next to her with a arrow pointer at her... the signs say "get a new life" and "Open house" and are pointed right at the girl.. of course its gods open house and Ritchies car takes off in the opposite direction.... as to the trucker , remember god send another trucker right at that point to stop Richies car but he swerves around and takes off
DeleteJaySharma is speakin' my language. I could actually imagine the writer thinking these same things.
DeleteA few other points of note: Johns girlfriend dosent seem surprised or afraid of Ritchie.. of course because shes on Gods side and has been sent to shepherd John across...at one point she says... "John I am not going to leave you" and when he says "you will be faster without me", she says, "Thats not what I meant".... no wonder Ritchie steals her phone when in the car so she couldnt get help....anyway shes always in golden and creamy glow and colors and of course she finds John out in the police station...with the help of the good police lady !!.. and then there is the matter of the Pork chops.... Ritchie orders them in the restaurant and guess what, he gets served with the pork chops at Johns house by his henchlady ( is there such a word?)
ReplyDeleteLast one from me... so Ritchie is the devil and has tried very hard to turn John to embrace evil but John hasnt budged... what can he do next?? try to create a situation where John will lose control and try to take things into his own hand ..try to get violent ..try to kill.. buy hey.. John had mentioned earlier that he would kill anyone who tried to hurt his wife.. so what better plan than to get his wife and him into a arguement... time to call in the henchlady and get her try to get her to create a situation...she fakes stabbing ..john gets angry..he stabs Ritchie ( ritchie actally laughs after getting stabbed.. flashback to ritchie saying " you can invite me to dinner and we can have a laugh").. and ritchies plan to get a evil hold on John is progressing as John tries to kill ritchie... Luckily the good police lady intervenes to save John
ReplyDeleteI’m getting confirm with most of the points you mentioned (cause I like thinking about a movie in more than one way at the same time, and so it does not necessarily conflict with my thoughts mentioned above). But I don`t really feel comfortable with the suicide of John. It implies me that evil tests you just after dead. But the message of your conclusion – the choice between good and evil – would be more profound if the devil is testing John while John is being alive. The choice of heaven or hell is crueler while being alive and being forced to live with it. It gives the movie a nice extra of a moral and philosophical touch about choices in our lives.
DeleteNope, he's dead alright. He was a property agent but couldnt sell anything. he always wanted a house (like the one in the painting in the start)... always wanted a pool , a nice family , wife , kids and all... but he had none of it. The only person who cared was a office secretary who helped and liked him... then one day he gets fired ,gets depressed and kills himself. And thats where the movie starts and the devil starts playing his game... he creates a imaginary house like the one John wanted , puts all the things in it that he wanted ..wife , kids, whiskey !... and comes knocking !!
DeleteAlso after he runs away through the field he comes to a crossroads. He can go left to "Jonesboro" or right to "Baalam." What an odd name for a city in America." Spelled slightly differently, "Balaam" is a biblical figure who was supposed to have advised the King of Moab on how to entice the Israelites to curse themselves, just as Richie is doing to John. Baalam sounds like it's a name for Purgatory.
DeleteI think the whole point is to get John to stand up for himself. Everyone in the movie keeps telling him he should stand up for himself and he doesn't do it until the end. The girl at the cellphone store, the trucker, the boss, Richie, etc. He stands up for himself once and that's when he slaps Richie's hat off. It seems that Richie keeps giving him openings to stand up against him but he just keeps being passive about everything rather than doing the right thing. "You've been turning your back on things your whole life, John. What's one more time?"
I'd like to add, people say richie is an "honest man". But he lied more then once, he claim his car was impounded, when you could clearly see it parked in the field across the street, and that the impound lot was just a few miles away. Knowing damn well his car wasn't impounded and he was taking them to a remote area.
ReplyDeleteDid anyone else notice how bloody that pork chop juice was...!? Wth kinda butcher shop did she pick that swine up from!? I mean I thought pork was the "other white meat". Those chops musta tasted gamey ass hell... probably a contributing factor to Sam Jack's character's distaste of the meal. Oink oink
ReplyDeleteAs the movie went along, I ready liked it. And reading all of your opinions and religious connections had made me want to watch it again in the morning to look for the things you ask pointed out. My dad breaks down movies for me in the same fashion. Thanks everyone for the insight!
ReplyDeleteCould someone tell me the name of the whistling sound, pls? Thanks :)
ReplyDeleteOh ok - got it on my own. "Dixie" - was the anthem of the Confederacy.
ReplyDeleteI read a lot of these comments which got me thinking everyone is saying that if richie was just a hitman he would have just killed john. But at the beggining of the movie richie was going to put john in the trunk so clearly that was his plan until he decides he wants to help john also the demon angle is just stupid john is the one whistling at the end because finding out that his wife wanted him dead she was all he had left and when he lost that he snapped.
ReplyDeleteSomething that I haven't heard explained yet is if the wife hired Richie to come kill John on that day at that particular time then why were her and the kids waiting for him with a cake to celebrate? Remember that initially she had planned on celebrating with the whole family because she expecting him to sell a house that day. She didn't know he was fired or that he was going to come home upset and break the glass. The original plan wasn't for her to take the kids and leave to the park so it doesn't make sense that she would have Richie come there to murder him that afternoon.
ReplyDelete-Sasha
(sorry no google account)
The other few things that have been driving me crazy that I thought would be explained or tie in together somehow are:
ReplyDeleteWhy are the kids so fat? Did anyone else notice the ridiculous portion sizes of macaroini and cheese that the mom was feeding the kids? Why call the female cop a fat ass? Why would they have diet girl scout cookies when she feeds her kids like pigs anyways? What was it that the cop realized at the end when the other cop said "lets go get fat"? I thought that somehow all the fat clues would tie in but I guess I didn't understand.
-Sasha
Just a quick thought on the Good / Evil angle. The pork chop fascination. Pork would be considered non kosher, the perfect food for evil. Of course it could be an homage to pulp fiction. Another interesting thought on pulp fiction is that Samuel Jackson's character there was a hitman who has a revelation to turn good.
ReplyDeleteVincent: Want some bacon?
Jules: No man, I don't eat pork.
Vincent: Are you Jewish?
Jules: Nah, I ain't Jewish, I just don't dig on swine, that's all.
Vincent: Why not?
Jules: Pigs are filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals.
Vincent: Bacon tastes gooood. Pork chops taste gooood.
Jules: Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherfucker. Pigs sleep and root in shit. That's a filthy animal. I ain't eat nothin' that ain't got sense enough to disregard its own feces.
Vincent: How about a dog? Dogs eats its own feces.
Jules: I don't eat dog either.
Vincent: Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal?
Jules: I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
Vincent: Ah, so by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal. Is that true?
Jules: Well we'd have to be talkin' about one charming motherfuckin' pig. I mean he'd have to be ten times more charmin' than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I'm sayin'?
Perhaps Richie came to kill John and spotted him at the pool, clearly looking devastated and contemplating suicide. Quite possibly involving the hole itself. If you think about it, it's a good analogy for his life- he's dug a hole and he's stuck. Also, there is the clear correlation to a grave.
ReplyDeleteIn that moment maybe Richie decided that John needed saving more than killing and towards that end he tries to toughen him up through forcing him to ( as they kept saying ) " grow a pair."
With his alliance shifted, he may have shifted his goal in the end towards John killing his wife. He knew she wanted him dead and perhaps John's survival was dependent on his seeing his wife for who she really is.
The fat kids and the cop's comment are the one thing I go back and forth on.
When the wife says she is taking the kids " out", John assumes it is to eat. She indicates they are going to the park. I did not get the impression that these kids would be the kind to physically play. They were like slugs. What did all the food she provided indicate? It does have a meaning but I do back and forth on what...
I also think it telling when Richie indicates he hates in others the qualities he sees in himself. There's a relevancy to that comment that I think should be explored as well....
The more I think about the movie...the more things confuse me lol.
At the beginning when the pool guy is leaving and John apologizes for the check the previous week, clearly meaning he didn't get paid, the guy says it's ok, they are square now. He is still there working on a pool that they can't afford to pay for? we eventually learn it's an affair underway, but why was John not concerned? He throws past due bills in the trash but continues to pay for a pool? Seemed odd.
Good movie to keep us all wondering....
I left 2 posts yesterday and they disappeared WTF???
DeleteI found this movie very exciting and interesting until the ending -- I don't know why there is so much debate about it -- she clearly wanted him dead -- otherwise why would he be choking her and she tries to stab him and then again tries to hit him with the golf club. I thought in the end that the filmmakers ended it because they didn't want to show luke wilson kill his wife since then he would get the life insurance money -- otherwise very frustrating ending. There is nothing to support any kind of supernatural stuff going on.
ReplyDeletewas the witness in the lineup lying the whole time? how would he see john commit anything if he was sitting in the car as richie did the killing. the witness did say "Im gonna get paid for this right?"
Delete---Also I think richie had to be something demonic and the little girl with the dog had to be some type of guardian because she was outside ALL DAY LONG a girl that little just out with her dog even when it was a full on storm. parents dont usually let their children play out in the rain alone when they are about 8 years old.
Exactly. More evidence for the dead-scenario/supernatural.
DeleteDo not discount the plot devise whereby the villain's 'soft-side' is revealed via the girl. She may not be a guardian at all in this case. After all, they are in a once vibrant town presumably full of children. She might represent what's left.
My theory would be that the wife was having an affair and that the kids were not John's kids. I also wonder why she covered the boys ears when she told off the woman detective and she didn't cover her daughter's ears. Could it be that maybe the son was John's son, but the daughter was not his??? I also think John's wife was trying to play the good wife because she wanted to stay with him and have him killed to collect the insurance money.
ReplyDeleteI have a theory that maybe the wife hired Ritchie to kill John, but she hired a demon instead. I don't think that Ritchie was a regular human being because I don't believe that a spouse trying to have another spouse killed would tell every single detail about the other spouse to be killed. Maybe just the person's name and where they usually hangout at. This also explains how Ritchie is killing everyone along the way. If Ritchie was really motivated by money, he would of just killed John and not make any waves and not get the police involved in all of this. And this is why I think Ritchie is actually a demon. He did mention to John that he (Ritchie) kills people that are already "dead." So, that makes my 2nd argument valid that he's a demon and knows these things.
In the end, when they are in bed, the lights go out, and the whistling starts....it could be that Ritchie is really not dead OR Ritchie transferred himself to John's body. OR, it could be that John became just like Ritchie (because Ritchie did keep saying to John throughout the whole movie that Ritchie and John are no different from each other; that they are pretty much the same).
I really think that this has similarities like Fight Club, except it's really not revealed or confirmed to us at the end whether or not Richie was John's subconscious. But the subtle similarities--- Richie ordered pork chops in the diner, John's wife tells Richie that pork chops are his fav---John poured himself a scotch on the rocks in the beginning, Richie asked for that at the end with his wife.
ReplyDeleteAlso, in the very beginning, when John is standing with the shovel in front of the hole that was in his backyard, that moment where he looked as if he was semi-spasming, is when he created Richie. Listen to the music, look at his anguished face, then we hear the bell and the hard knock...there's Richie.
John---the good, wholesome, mild-mannered, non-violent, somewhat wimpy, husband and father
TURNS TO:
Richie---the evil, do what you want, say what you want, daredevil, violent killer.
I believe it was his subconscious that created Richie. There are a lot of other elements that confuse this theory, especially considering the wife. But she was no angel. And I think she thought that John was a wimp too. Just listen to the way she spoke to him towards the end.
This movie was def confusing, but makes for great discussion.
Ok....my theory is completely different than anything I read on here...has anyone noticed that throughout the movie we didnt actually see anyone getting killed by richie?? And that John has lapses around those deaths or sees someone gettin hurt but doesnt see them die?? It actually clicked when I watched the movie again....at the bar a truck nearly ran John over, same truck then chases them and runs them off the rd...what does he say? i saw YOU drive off after YOU killed my girl!!! i started building around that concept and I got to this explanations for Richie...he could simply be the angle of death/an evil manifestation of John who is a nice guy with no balls incapable of doing harm...Richie is there when ppl r already dead according to him remember? So is John's evil side doin all the killing?? Also John's wife called Richie as in wished John to die thats why she doesnt really recognize him nor his voice she only wished for John to die....and John looked like he was praying for something at the beginning of the movie when he was leaning against the shovle, he was also wishing for death. Maybe Richie appears to ppl in human form right before they die and sweeps the spirit away after they r dead....he had to follow John on his killing spree to collect souls I dunno but....in a way he's a menifestation of John's evil spirit begging to come out....Richie also has a little bit of the wife in his....as well as the affair girl.....he projects ppl's evil thoughts in flesh.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the movie John faces the his own evil side....BUT its a lose lose battle....if Richie wins John is dead, and if John wins, his "separate" evil side siezes to exist....where does it go? It becomes part of John and John BECOMES Richie....thus at the end he whistles just like Richie cuz the vil side is part of him now.....btw...the little girl and the dog....that's John's good side....feeling lonely and week and lef out.
Twisted, yes....possible? i leave that for you....
P.S. At the beggining John acknowledges money owed to the pool guy who tells them they r even....so John knows the wifey is involved with the pool guy which wipes off his debt....extra pressure....and finally snaps
There is obviously a significance about fatness. The wife wouldn't have called the female cop fat, nor would the kids be over fed, and lastly the main detective wouldn't have made that comment at the end.. The female cop knows what's up.. The wife set it up but Ritchie saw something in John. It's nothing to do with being a demon, Ritchie realized John was being ignorant about all of the bad happening around him and he finally got him to open his eyes to it at the end that his wife was a bad person. Do you not remember Ritchie, I believe, making the comment about ignorance? Ritchie saved John. Ritchie was just a crazy guy who's way of saving people was by killing them, except for keeping John alive. He was different to him. Back to the fat issue.. She was in perfect shape.. Maybe she gets her kids fat because it makes it easy to hate them and do away with John. The female cop really wasn't fat, so fatness has to be the wife's way to hate. There is a large significance with fat.. But honestly, the main police officer has to know what's gonna happen, John will snap.. Where does 'let's go get fat' come from?
ReplyDeleteWhilst it seems there are arguments for both Richie being a hitman and Richie being some form of supernatural entity i noticed a few things throughout the film that i think relate more to the supernatural side than the hitman side.
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost is Richies constant attempts to test johns pure side. John accepts to helping Richie with his car, the first test. John also passes the second test, not blaming Richie for hurting his leg. John then declines drinking alcohol during the day, he also declines drinking alcohol that Richie steals from the house. Richie also tries to convince John not to help the woman in the house because there is nothing he can do for her, but he attempts anyway.
The dialogue is also very interesting. The entire point about Richie being a guest inside his house to me had strong religious connotations and I found the quote "Don't mistake my kindness for weakness" to strengthen my thought that John is on a test and not a real life scenario.
Finally however i think the writers purposely added points to strengthen both sides of the story but to me the superatural/religious test side was to prominent.
One final note was that at the beginning of the movie i saw the camera go across a quote on the wall of Johns house that sounded religious but i wasnt paying enough attention to read it, did anyone manage to notice it or could someone watch it again? i felt that scene had a lot of forshadowing however i didnt realise i would be so intrigued by the movie until it was finished so i didnt have my detective hate on while watching it.
The Quote was: Every house where love abides and friendship is a guest, is surely home and home sweet home. For there the heart can rest.
DeleteYour interpretation is good, bro...
DeleteOne lingering question. . . .remember the guy at the gas pump that had the pretty wife and kids and that got out of the convertable? the guy had this look on his face just like John: desperation, angst, and fear. Next thing is we see the gas pump handle hit the ground with no one around. What happened?? Where is everyone? Did the guy run into the gas station to save his family from being hurt?
ReplyDeleteSo many stupid thoughts in here lol. Go re-watch the movie: richie said wife n him never met but he then mentioned she hired him via someone else... Didnt say who. The girl withthe dog is a key; she suffers no harm even though richie kills EVERYONE. "im giving you and option thats more than what anyone else gets... Including your wife and kids" thus he was tryna get them to fight later on the table scene. He surely is evil... AND not human... Come on! How could he do what he pleased wherever and whenever and not being caught? Nobody saw him until he wanted a ride to the 'impound lot' with john & the girl ! Also, john jr. Is his son, Sam apparently not... Come on... john, Joanie, John Jr. & Sam? Wtf...
ReplyDeleteAnd he was about to commit suicide in the eginning but richie came his way to show him there are far worse things in this world to make him suffer a littlebit more... Til he got a grip of how evil the world was and learned to fight back
I too noticed that no one had seen him until he wanted himself to be revealed.
DeleteThe thing is when story touches the real life issues such as lay-offs, foreclosures and weak moments, affairs, our imagination exaggerates. Simply Evil comes and knocks the door just before the good guy thinking to suicide. Kind o religious. Evil would kill him but metaphorically little girl angel stops evil. He takes our good guy to his car but realizes how good and naive the guy is. He wants to show the real world to him. I share all the testing stuff ideas. Last play of evil was to make family fight with each other.
ReplyDeleteFor me affair of the wife was unexpected but what about the affair of John. Cheating Wife but does it make her a killer. Story at the end shows John looking at the daughter with love but when he goes to the bed full of questions. And last whisle means evil half succeded with suspicion.
Fat is great idea showing that mother is not very caring one. And low fat cookies, she knows what is best for herself or people but she does not care about her family. Even the last night, after her husband is out of jail and trouble, her pork chops are not cooked well. And ear thing to her son but not the girl, is another signal that she is not a good mother. At the end police officer realizes the contradiction. You could make this movie end in a different scenarious as you wish. I love this one. John protected his family and his soul. Is he the same man after all of this. I don't think so. whistle :0)).
Why does the police officer at the end say : "Something I could never do.". after the police woman asks him "What is he gonna do now ?" I can't make up my mind if he is saying that John will keep on living with his wife as if nothing happened, for the sake of the kids, or if he is saying that John will kill his wife ??
ReplyDeleteI thought he was saying "forgive her". He could never forgive her. But I don't think he did. I think he plans on killing her eventually. Hence the whistle.
DeleteI think John being the good guy he is he doesn't kill her. I believe the whistle shows that even though he's a good guy he now acknowledges all of the evil in the world.
DeleteAlso, does anybody know if Richie's Whistling occured before or after specific situations ?? I didn't really pay attention to it, but now I am asking myself that question ?! What exact situations did the whistles follow ??
ReplyDeleteChamp reminded me of a very weird incident that I had totally forgotten about. The guy at the gas station that looked at John. That was a real weird situation. Why did he stare like that, creepy ?? When I saw it I was like WTF ??? Really weird !
ReplyDeleteThe movie personified the seven deadly sins:
ReplyDelete1. Lust: John relationship with co worker
2. Gluttony: The constant reference of being fat and the over eating of the children.
3. Greed: The wife hiring the hitman for the insurance money.
4. Sloth: The messy home of the grandma and the kid.
5. Wrath: The killing spree of Richie.
6. Envy: The reference made by the cop about these rich people having problem.
7. Pride: The cockiness of the lead detective thinking he knows how it all went down.
Each character seem to embodied each sin. Also the naming of the character can imply something. John in the bible is known as highly spiritual characters. Richie can imply being rich. The bible stating it easier for camel to enter the eye of a needle than for a rich man to make it in. Just some thought and I agree the movie is a success, because of the amount of thought provocation it induced.
I personally feel Richie was a hit man hired by the wife. Somehow the devil got caught up in his body. He plan on killing John but he's protected by the child angel and dog. Richie / devil trying to get a foothold in him by killing spree. I believe in the end John somehow died in the water w/ Richie and the devil finally got into the heart of John. John was the one who was whistling in the end and this devil will move on to his next victim....I really enjoy reading everyone else reviews. thanks
http://collider.com/chris-fisher-meeting-evil-interview/158641
DeleteThe director of the movie makes some enlightening statement as well. Check out the link above.
Thanks for the link, pretty cool interview.
DeleteIve got some points that i dont think have been mentioned yet, that support the theory that john is of supernatural origin.
DeleteIn some stories about demons and the devils temptations, the demons and the devil usually have to be invited, and dont usualy make people do things against their will, but rather coax them into situations. If you watch carefully, john never really strongly resists or flat out tells richie to do things, but the 2 times he does, richie listens. Any time john says no or dissagrees, richie either talks his way into john agreeing (in the begining) or just scares john into agreeing (towards the end) The 2 times that john flat out tells richie what he wants, richie does it. the first time is when they get to the pub and john tells him he just wants to go to his wife. Richie lets him and goes to the pub alone. the other time he tells richie flat out, is after they pass the road block. Richie knows what john wants, so he tricks john by asking "what do you want" john says leave me alone, so he agrees and leaves him stranded, taking the car to johns house.
Another one of interest, Why does richie have such a strong need for an invitation? He scared john into inviting him over. He kills cops, and massacres innocent people for no reason, but wont come over unannounced? John invited him, he goes to johns house, johns wife answers, he's just killed 2 cops, but he just stands at the door, being weird, untill johns wife invites him in. I dont think he could enter the house unless invited.
Watch it again and look out for richies need for approval or invitation for things, and how he twists things around, or scares john to get him to invite, or alow things. John was the perfect target because he was so much of a push over, he wouldnt really strongy object to things.
The hitman theory no matter how you put it doesnt hold any weight since richie kills so many people. Why would a hired hitman walk into a service station and kill everyone?
Also, i believe the little girl to be some kind of guardian. In the begining, richie pulls out his gun and is about to kill john. The only thing that stops him, is the little girl standing there. Kids didnt stop john later on? he killed one and hung him upside down?
DeleteThe interview have1master posted above the director writes: He appears to be evil, and to John he is, indeed, evil. Certainly, he’s not the most altruistic of entities, but he is of John’s own creation. In a very real sense, John conjured this being. Richie and John are very symbiotic.
Deletedefinitely supernatural
Amazing interpretation !!!!!
DeleteAny body figured in the 7 deadly sins that's shown throughout the movie?
DeleteThe currently recognized version of the sins are usually given as wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony.
This would also tie in to the biblical views of the movie.
Maybe John called for the hit man to do him in do his wife and kids could live comfortably again? Richie did state that it wasnt a direct call, when the wife said "I have never spoken to you before!" richie replied "that's true, you got a man to call for you" i don't believe it would have been the contractor or that she had any real feelings for him just that she wanted to get back at John for cheating on her
ReplyDeleteMy brother thinks that the wife did set up john for insurance money because at the beginning samuel l jackson had a gun and was about to kill john until he saw that little girl. And then later samuel l jackson tells john that she sets him up. And everytime to john mentioned his wife's name is samuel l jackson scoffs.
ReplyDeleteMy brother thinks that the wife did set up john for insurance money because at the beginning samuel l jackson had a gun and was about to kill john until he saw that little girl. And then later samuel l jackson tells john that she sets him up. And everytime to john mentioned his wife's name is samuel l jackson scoffs.
ReplyDeleteI have a question... What was the meaning behind the overweight children.... I am sure there was some symbolism behind this... I have my theory and wanted to see what others thought.
ReplyDeleteRead Johnny Vasquez' comment :-)
DeleteGLuttony
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOne detail that popped out to me was all of the people we know Richie killed (with the exception of hiss boss and the grandmother) listened to what he asked. He always asked people to come closer. It almost seemed like he could only kill the "sheep".
ReplyDeleteJust before Richie knocking at John's door for the 1st time, John's wife said she's taking the kids out , when Richie ask John to help him to to push the car at the front door, John's taking a peek at his house and his phone and car keys, the car keys is still there and i wonder how the wife and kids going out at that time(using spare keys??), do they have other cars? i don't see his old red 3series beemer outside when John's walking his way to push Richie's car outside his house....
ReplyDeleteJohn might have died(suicide) and so does his wife and kids(he killed them all and buried at that pool digging side ) and Richie's knock at the door scenes is a symbolic of "Angel of Death" doing his usual thing.I believe John is in the other world(purgatory ???is that the right word?,correct me if i'm wrong...), the final stage to test him which path he will choose whether good or evil,heaven or hell...that little girl and her dog is a symbolic of the angelic side of that life after dead world...like Richie's quote, he only kills those whom already dead, perfectly described this life after dead world!
I was watching the movie under the assumption that John was a schizophrenic and Riche was his other side. Watch the movie from this perspective and you might see what I am talking about. The way his wife was reacting seemed to really hint towards this idea. I could be wrong, but it seemed to make sense to me as a possibility.
ReplyDeleteOkay this movie confused me! I was following untill the very end, who was whistling?? Was it John? And why did it seem the detective guy supported John possibly killing his wife?? Because he said "He's doing something i never could" implying he knew! Or was it Richie come back to life???? If so, why was John acting so weird and why did the detective make that comment??? WHAT AN ENDING!!!!!
ReplyDeleteThe seven deadly sins is spot on. Richie is a demon or the devil leaning more toward demon and he cant come in unless invited. John is a man at the end of his rope. This wasnt a random killing spree, it was a tryout to see if he had the heuvoes to be one of the devils death dealers. Insurance had nothing to do with it. Btw john knew his wife was cheating the uneasiness of the convo with the contractor and his staring and pushing himselve on the shovel was a metaphor for the greeks thrusting themselves on there blades when they had lost the battle, or am i wrong?
ReplyDeleteOk just finished watching the film and read all of these wonderful theories. Firstly I fo agree that the movie served purpose since it struck up such great debate and now I want to take a stab at it....I don't think richie is a demon or supernatural. Considering the small town and how country it was with long desolate roads etc it could be possible that he committed all of those murders which probably came as a shock to a town which doesn't get much action. I believe john's wife hired richie hence all of the info he had on him and his attempt to pull the gun and stuff john in the trunk. Richie was pretty honest though he was brash. I feel like he did see the kindness and john and wanted him to stop turning his back on things and letting everything slide, that's why richie got excited when john almost killed the wife and always seemed to try to encourage john to kick some ass. Richie said "we" killed the trucker,richie wanted john to off his boss,and even did in the clerk who refused to treat john with respect. I think richie wanted jihn to to be blind to the evil of the world and stop being so naive because that's the shit that has your wife calling in the hit now. Richie killed any and everyone except the little girl (direct witness) and john's mistress which was the one evil that john did so keeping her alive was like a trophy. I believe john met evil at the end when he stabbed ritchie and killed him. Richie accomplished his goal he brought john to the side of evil so now he can rest in peace richie's work was done. John's wife did have the "aww fuck" look when john came up alive from the water and couldnt even look john in the face when he came to bed. She asked if they were gonna be alright but her look said "man I just dodged a bullet" also when she had the golf clubs she almost hit john but probably realized she was making richie's story sound true so she had to save face and what better way than to club richie who already looks like the bad guy and also botched her plans. At the end I think that was john whistling because by this time he has already been introduced to evil and he wants to handle this job himself he is done turning his back. The kids were a curveball in the film but I guess I can't help but play on that as well. Girl definitely looked Hispanic could be product of pool guy/contractor which are jobs frequented by Hispanics but that's a stretch however I do feel like she covered the boy's ears as to say i want him to know how to treat a lady since his dad shitted on me and cheated and she let the girl hear to know how to defend herself in case she gets done how mom was done by john when he cheated.
ReplyDeleteThis is one thing everyone has left out. Richie gun neverhad a silecer so how come he never heard gun shots in the store. u never seen Richie kill anyone. even the truck nan was never fully dead u always sew the aftermath and y would the little girl stick up her middle finger? that's not godly. also joh had opportunities to leave he didn't. also most said Richie left no witnesses well if thts the case he could have killed the girlfriend. I think john was doing the killing. he had nlreadt lost everything so what did he have to lose?
ReplyDeleteThis is Quayman writing......
ReplyDeleteIt is obvious that Richie is demon possessed. At the dinner scene Johns wife says " I have never seen you in my life" Richie says " Yah that's true, you did send someone else to be me" At some point while going to kill John Richie became possed by a demon BINGO!!!! Notice How Richie's teeth become jagged and yellow tinged when john has the Knife to his wifes neck. I feel that the demon inside Richie wanted to wake up John's naive mind(he wanted to show him the real world before he killed him). In many of the death scenes, Richie killed someone who John had a problem with like the desk clerk with the bad attitude. Richie was trying to get John to realize that everything isn't what it seems and to stop being a push over. Richie can't kill innocence. ( the girl outside the house in all kinds of weather). Richie killed the boy because though he was a child, the boy still had evil intentions in his heart. The boy cursed and when Richie went for the gun the boy fired but was too late. Richie also couldn't kill John because he couldn't find any evil in his heart which is the reason he spent all day trying to provoke John to do evil so he could kill him along with his wife. Also notice that Richie couldn't kill Johns children because they weren't evil. Once John stabbed Richie it gave Richie all the authority to go after John and try to kill him. When the detective shot Richie John came out of the water possessed with the demon that was in Richie, hence the whistling as the credits rolled. The fat kids and the FAT word that kept comming up throughout the movie signified the hatred in John's wifes heart for his adultry. The GIANT bowl of macaroni and cheese she was feeding the kids was a dead giveaway. She wanted a different life and was taking her frustrations with John out on the kids by stuffing them with food.
Why is richie wearing cross cufflnk?
ReplyDeleteThe demon theory is bullshat, it has way to many flaws. I feel his wife was simply hiring Rich to kill him. He knows everything about him because he was watching him, hence him speeding by. I felt it was pretty straight forward that she wanted him dead for the money. Richie was just a hitman who snapped and wanted John to realize what he's been put up for. Someone above me mentioned all the reasons his wife would want hiim dead so I won't repeat all that. As for rich being a demon and couldn't attack him until he was evil is dumb, he got a knife in the chest and was going to kill him for stabbing or betraying him. His kids weren't his because they looked like the pool guys and if they were his wife was going to kill them off too with obesity. When he was upstairs she didn't even bother to help the kids or even care to save them. All in all she was out to get him and Richie was just a hitman who got sick of peoples evil and bull and snapped. At the end I'm sure John was going to kill his wife, or was contemplating it.
ReplyDeleteyes, a woman without money and with tons of debts hiring a professional hitman to kill the father of their children so she could be with the pool guy instead of asking for the divorce. that makes sense to you? oh, and this so called professional assassin kills everyone EXCEPT the one he was hired to kill on the first place..bravo, that makes a lot of sense..
DeleteMy theory is that John was aware of everything from the beginning. And was probably planning to kill his wife for the money (And may be his affair was not ended, but on pause until they take care of his wife). May be or may not be unaware of his wife's affair. But Richie's intervention changed everything.. And since both wanted to kill each other, they are not sure about each other.... etc.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe that John knew everything from the beginning, he just seems too damn innocent. I do however think there was always some sort of demonic aura that Richie always seemed to have. He always knew everything about everyone and even though he may have been human, he seemed to have some sort of higher power that enabled him to get away with everything up until the end where he was killed by John, unless of course he wasn't dead and the whistling was him coming back to kill John and the wife. But I would rather believe that it was John whistling because it was a much slower melody, meaning that it was someone different whistling. That is why I conclude that John is now the one who has been turned evil, which will have him do things that he would have never done at the beginning of the movie. I hope there isn't a sequel because this movie is far too intriguing to have any more details released.
DeleteDogs are not colour-blind. They see a wide range of wavelengths, but shifted to the blue/yellow. Check the research. Colour-blindness in dogs is a myth.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your totally relative input lol
DeleteLots of different views and opinions but does anybody think mine has any merit....John;s wife hired Richie to murder him. But John's a "nice guy" that gets walked all over his whole life. Rickie is there to teach John to stand up for himself and even like the fat donut eater said to John to "grow some balls" I think this was Richies' role was to teach John to grow some balls and stand up for himself. Richie mentioned this many times over ex. in the bar when he said to John that he got fired and didn't do anything about it. At the end I think the "new" John stands up for himself and kills his chica. I also think he really wanted to be with the other girl but he only ever referred to his wife as his wife and nothing more like that he was in love with her??? Any comments please.......
ReplyDeleteNOT JUST A COMMENT my friend, you are right.
DeleteEvery one else is thinking too much, but not the way they should.
You ARE right about Richie, he cant take it that John is such a pussy.
and everybody who is making John look like one gets ....removed, coincidence? NOOO. That whistle in the end? when the lights went out? and John's wife got NERVOUS? That whistle is Johns,.....John is agitated, pissed and fed up by getting fucked with FINALLY (look at his face)
There's got to be more with the fat theme and the kids. It occurs too much but doesn't seem to have a solid significance. The huge bowls of Mac n cheese aren't even touched and the mom asked if they were finished. Then Sam touched her brother and winks right before Richie knocks at the door. Why, were they expecting something? I'm surprised no one has mentioned that yet. Also Richie tells john he has two little angles. Are they fat to represent cherubs, some kinda guardian angle? There has to be more to the kids, they are fat for a reason and I don't think to show they weren't Johns kids. Any thoughts...?
ReplyDeleteyes, a thought.. you're obsessed with fat people
DeleteRichie does tell John that he has two little angels. but he also mentions earlier in the movie that he didn't care for kids or pets.
DeleteAll of these sound viable, though my fav is the supernatural concept.
ReplyDeleteIf you re watch the movie you will notice two key scenes in which there is a significant reference to the devil.
Just before we see Ritchie make his kill of the trucker, they drive past a railroads crossing... a crossroads!
Then, after escaping the farm John flags down the police car with Ritchie driving, and asks for his help. This also occurs on a crossroads.
Just my two cents
Kyler
Amazing Stuff, at first I was skeptical but now convinced of the purgatory theory.
ReplyDeleteI believe most of the relative points to this have already been made. However, I wanted to mention a few additional thoughts.
The first is when they are at the gas station, is the actual John and his family or the version of a family that his purgatory family is based on. Johns wife hates the kids and is making them fat because they are angels and she cant get rid of them. The daughter may be a fallen angel or evil that is why she can listen when the good angel/the son (hear no evil) has his ears covered by the wife. I think their fatness is representative of one of the seven deadly sins, like an earlier poster had referenced, all 7 sins are represented. Plus if I remember right there was a point in the movie where Richie is temping John and John responds "I have faith"
I agree with alot of what has been said thus far. But I do tend to believe that there are spiritual significance in the movie. The part when Richie comes in the house, pretending to be a police officer, and after talking to John's wife, and her bringing him numerous drinks, John finally comes in the room, while Richie is coming from the kids room,Richie then says to John, you have 2 little angels in there, not one but 2, you are so lucky! Meaning, the acts that he wanted to commit he couldnt, do to their presence! Same incident when John was pushing the car, the car back fires, and Richie jumps out of the car with intentions to kill, but couldn;t, because there was another child (angel) standing there.
DeleteThere is definitely multiple interpretations that one can make here, after looking over the evidence, I do believe the wife is a Sociopath. Everything points to this, her attitude towards the children and the police officers, having an affair with the contractor, telling john that doing his best "isn't good enough", clearly willing to kill him towards the end with a knife -- she shows all the signs of a classic Sociopath.
ReplyDeleteAs for Richie, well his character is bit over the place. Hired killer would have no need to go on a unrelated killing spree while in the process of killing john, I believe more towards richie being like a "grim reaper" he's come for richie, just as he's come for all the others he kills, but for some reason shows him compassion and tries to open his eyes to the danger he is in, kind of a "second chance". At the end john puts this all together and what happens after that is obviously beyond the movie.
It's the boss.
ReplyDeleteThe girl who John had the affair with, she broke up with her beau - John's boss - to be with John, who didn't do likewise. John's boss, the guy at the bar who disappears, he fired John. He's also out to eff-up John's life, big-time, even eff-up John's wife, via the hired-thug, Richie.
Richie found himself moved at John's kindness at the door on their first face-to-face meeting, and this was highly disturbing to Richie, who considers himself a professional, that he could respond to kindness. Richie was still going to shoot John, and put him in the trunk, but the little girl with the dog: Richie feels like he's been given some supernatural signals from wherever, not to do this. First the kindness, now this sign of a little girl placed serendipitously showing up as a witness at this crucial moment. This is highly disturbing to Richie, so he goes on his killing spree, because his world is coming apart, from kindness and from 'signs' from beyond, telling him not to be so evil. This is upsetting his fixed and immutable soul, upsetting to his conviction that the world is very bad place, and that he was right to close himself off from his own humanity.
On getting the contract-hit, Richie had done his due diligence, scoping out the house, calling them, hearing the wife's voice, knowing his target(s). Richie doesn't know that it wasn't John's wife that hired him, just some guy. He's been guessing that it was the wife who found a guy to hire him/Richie. He didn't know it was the boss. He just took the boss outside the bar and killed him, just because this boss was mean to John, whom Richie is strangely protective of.
So, at the end, now that both the boss and Richie are dead ... the ending was perfect, as no one will ever know. The distrust will linger, and Richie's whistling will be in John and his wife's heads a long time. John knows somewhere down deep that his killing Richie was, in a strange way, wrong. Yes, Richie would have liked to see John's wife suffer, thinking that she hired him to kill John. But John will think over and over and over that Richie could have killed him so many times, but didn't. That 'why didn't he' will haunt John for a long time. He may eventually figure out that it was the boss, but it'll take him quite a long time.
To the film-makers: the truth is there to find in your movie, but so very subtle and well hidden with the more Usual Suspects. Thumbs up.
-Just some guy who's seen too many movies. This one surprised me with its subterranean intelligence.
Okay, first I'm going to debunk the angel/demon theory. The little girl flipped off the cop, not an angelic attribute.
ReplyDeleteNext, I think it's fairly obvious that the wife wanted him dead. Here's why:
1. She tried to stab him with the knife. If you pause the movie right before she goes to stab him, you can see a VERY hateful look on her face. This same look is still there a few seconds later if you pause it again, right before he takes the knife from her.
2. Right after John comes up from the water, he looks over at her and she looks away, then down as her hands move toward her face. A wife who loves her husband would have run into the water to help or retrieve him, regardless of his condition. At the very least, she would have screamed for him and sighed for relief when she saw that he was okay.
At the end, when she was in the bed, she looked like she was about to soil herself. I laughed. I also noticed the look on his face as he turned out the light and after he did, when thunder struck, he was looking over at her. Personally, I think he might take her out but to each his own.
This probbaly isn't worth mentioning.. but I think the kids are his. There is no real evidence in the movie to support that she was cheating on him before he cheated on her. Just a thought.
Lastly, as for the whistling, I don't think it really matters if it was him or a recording of Richie's voice. The message is the same.
I thought I had the movie figured out and I like my ending better!
DeleteThe reason Richie knew everything about John (they liked pork chops, scotch etc.) because Richie WAS John.
The moment right before they actually met (at the door) John was in the backyard deeply troubled (possibly realizing who the pool guy really was, thinking about being fired, and all his econmomic troubles). That should have been the moment his personality fragmented, creating the Richie character. A mean sob who didn't take crap. If you remember Richie said we are more alike than you think.
I could go deeper in to detail, but this would've also explained why we hear Richie's whistling at the end.
"...not an angelic attribute."
DeleteYou obviously haven't read Paradise Lost
it seemed to me that richie wasw either the devil or a diciple of the devils. He said at one point he didnt have to make a choice as if it were a privelage. johns wife also had a look of disgust when he came up from the ditch in the backyard. richie was not acting like someone who cared about his life . perhaps he didi manifest a body or posessed one . But answer me this .... why did richie have tears in his eyes when him and john were talking about his wife and kids ??? at this point in the movie I thought richie was johns's alter ego and john had been comitting these crimes . The car richie had was sweet . something any american male would conjure up in an alter ego . but thats not possible because the murders continued after john was arrested. so why the whistling at the end ? is john now posessed? Did richie return to finish johns wife off? He didnt seem to like the women in johns life . I am ripping my hair out over this .
ReplyDeleteSometimes I hate movies that do a piss poor job of leaving out details or having a plot that isn't clear to understand. I just watched the movie and halfway through it I was semi lost. I don't agree with the demon theory. The wife from the very beginning wasn't worried about nothing but money and more focused on badgering him. Richie is first seen flying past the house when John pulls up NOT when he rang the door bell. The pool guy is seen leaving shirtless. My thing is if he is in FORECLOSURE, behind on bills, lost his job he wouldn't even have a pool installed. The pool guy tells him don't worry about it that's because he is getting paid in SEX. I think the Pontiac GTO that Richie is driving wasn't even his to begin with that is why he parked in the handicap spot at the bar COINCIDENTALLY where his ex boss and the ex boss's girlfriend that he just so happened to cheat with is there all of these were to many circumstances. Richie planned this from jump. He knew everything about him where and whom could this info be gotten none other than the wife. Also when coming out the bar far in the distance the car is spotted parked nearby before Richie says it was supposedly towed. After Tammy engages in a heated debate with Richie where he was throwing out innuendos that raised a flag in her mind and should've also in John's but he was still clueless. This is my theory the wife already knew the hardships they were facing, she knew about the affair, and she knew about his deal falling through because she orchestrated the whole thing. I believe she called his boss told him of the affair his boss vandalized his car(in the beginning the car has busted tail lights and doughnut tire)& then fired him. She was planning to kill all along. There is no other connection that ties Richie to John other than the wife otherwise Richie's character wouldn't even make sense as to why he is in the movie in the first place. My only dilemma is the little girl who seems to have irresponsible parents or homeless because she was seen at all times of the day and night, and was never seen at specific house she was just there
ReplyDeleteIt is quite obvious that John is disappointed when he finds out that nothing actually happened to his family. From what I can remember, when John came home and looked at the backyard, it did look like three graves were freshly dug. At first I thought that maybe John snapped and killed his family or maybe for one second he thought someone had actually beat him to it or at least he entertained the idea not because he didn't love his family but because he could finally give up on everything if they were in fact already dead. Maybe then he could end himself without feeling and obligation to stay alive for his family. I think Richie kept whistling that song because the Dixie lyrics has look away look away look away at then end of each part. Richie repeatedly said how John spent his whole life looking away. Richie was definitely not of this world well not a normal human being anyway. He had some supernatural gifts or may have been under the influence of the dark side so to speak. Richie used to be like John, a family man and a upstanding citizen and then lost it and did somethings and got punished by becoming the angel of death so to speak. About the little girl with the dog, she is not an angel, but she has a sixth sense and can feel and see evil things. The wife may not have actually hired a hit man but she might have wished for something bad to happen to John which was like cursing someone.
ReplyDeleteI believe John and his wife have argued so many times in front of the children that the children learned to just shut everything out. Of course John would always lose the arguments with his wife. If the wife actually hired someone to kill John, I don't think she would plan a surprise party with cake for John selling the house, but I do think that she secretly wished or prayed for something bad to happen to John. Plus remember, how would she hire anyone to kill John, they had no money. When John was in the backyard and looked like he was about to do something, it was him just realizing, hey, we have no money to fix this pool, why is this guy in my house? Just when he was about to really get angry, the doorbell rang. The man in the gas station was trying to warn John and tell John to go, but John looked away. I do believe that was an angel and then disappeared maybe because he was never really there, but that family was shown to John to remind him of his family which was quickly down played by Richie's comment about how hot the wife was at the gas station. I also believe that something really bad happened to Richie before he got taken over by a dark force and maybe white people had something to do with it seeing how it seemed that he was looking for respect from the various white people that he encountered in the movie. He needed to feel power and no matter how he dressed or what car he drove, people still disrespected him even as a police officer. The killing of the black police officer was only to give him enough time to influence John one last time. I also believe that Richie or what possessed him was jealous of John in some way and wanted John to react just as he had when he had a family of his own. Plus Richie was way too calm to be a normal human being and not one under the influence of something. He didn't kill John at first maybe because John was the first white man who actually sincerely wanted to help him without thinking any negative thoughts. He needed John to do something bad first before he could kill him. The influence over Richie by the dark side just added to whatever negative outlook Richie had about people in the world. Also, Richie seemed to have a smile on his face when he was laying in the water after being shot like finally i can be free of this demon. The whistling at the end was significant because John is now looking at his wife and not looking away because I am pretty sure if the whistling were actually coming from either one of them, the lights would have instantly been turned back on. The hit man theory makes no sense because it would have been impossible for that to look like his wife had nothing to do with it. The whole point would be to make it look like a robbery or accident and hiring a hit man like that to abduct him right in front of his house didn't play at all. As far as the police outside the door , I believe Richie just told them that he will take it from there, and pulled the gun just in case the officers asked for some identification. The whole point was to pull John down to Richie's level as a result of his lost soul. John and his girlfriend knew they were facing some kind of evil which is why they seemed so helpless and fearful. Even when John had the gun, he didn't have the courage to use it and that is exactly what Richie wanted before he took John out. He wanted John to lose it. Richie's actions were not one of a hit man, but of all of those killing sprees and serial killers we read about in the papers.
ReplyDeleteWhen people are empty, they tend to let something else in. At the end, John became empty and I believe got possessed by something himself. The fact that he was looking at his kids for a while was just that he was very confused about everything that happened and maybe spending time with them before doing something that he knew he would eventually do to the mother. Enough was enough and I think he was finally tired of all the insanity and craziness experienced in his marriage. She has pushed him very hard the entire marriage maybe. Sorry if my thoughts or opinions are stupid.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest signal that I picked up on that supports the claim that John's wife did indeed hire Richie as a hitman, is the scene where John's wife and Richie talk alone for the first time in the movie.
ReplyDeleteJohn's wife states how she started to feel "nervous" about Richie's presence in her house, and later in the scene where she goes to check on the porkchops, the movie picks up on her eyeing the knife and having the temptation to use it against Richie
But, from that point in the movie, nothing is known about Richie when were talking about John's wife, all she knew is that Richie wanted to talk with her, drank while on the job, and started some odd conversations. Obviously if that truly was the first time Richie and John's wife met, she wouldn't have been tempted to reach for a knife all because a policeman was a bit out of the ordinary.
It's safe to say from that single shred of evidence, that there is a back story between Richie and John's wife, being that she did indeed hire him as a hitman. Dusty does pick up on the idea that Richie could be a metaphor for a supernatural being, but watching this movie definitely didn't give me the vibe that the developers intended any supernatural elements into this kind of movie.
About Richie's motive for leaving a trail of countless bodies all the while being an alleged hitman, which tend to work carefully with their kills along with having a structural business, is indeed a good question. Richie's motive most certainly doesn't include money, throughout the movie the only real motive that can be picked on is to teach John something about his life, but why him?
Obviously Richie isn't a normal person for one, second, he's always identifying how he and John are alot alike. From the very beginning of the movie, you see Richie needing help with his stalled car, and after Richie burns John's leg with his exhaust, he pulls out his gun, opens his trunk; signifying where he'll place John's soontobe dead body, but then stops.
Richie's initial plan was truly intended to be a quick kill and bag of a target, but Richie changes. He stops because he saw the little girl with this dog, and this insignificant witness gave birth to Richie growing a bond with John, and delving a little deeper into his personal life then most normal people would dive.
And finally the final scene of the movie with Richie's trademark whistle. It was John. Taking out the idea of Richie being supernatural, he's dead, so that only rules out John or his wife. Richie said himself that John's wife was too much of a coward to kill him herself, so she couldn't possibly be the one to carry on where Richie left off.
There was the scene where she tried to knife john after he choked her, but honestly unless the movie developers thought that grabbing a knife by your palms as a means to protect yourself, is a vital strategy for protection (factually implausible), then she most probably did a very slow and hesitant attempt at a stab, which then would be possible to block with the palms of your hands, then no john's wife wasn't the one that whistled.
Why didn't John kill her when he had the chance already to strangle and stab her? You do forget that a crazy man is still in his house, so its pretty much a question of who to kill first for John. The amazingly gifted killer, or the hesitant husband killer. The choice was simple.
So my verdict stands that it was indeed john, and pray tell me what he'll do next, because it's such a mystery! I do love a good mystery :)
When Richie first appeared, I thought he was John's alter ego until I realized others could see Richie. The story Richie told John in the end would have been the most rational reason, but Assassins don't just go killing people all willy nilly. They usually stick to their targets. This is why I have no choice but to believe Richie was of an evil force. Look at the way he killed those people in that store. Pure evil! I do believe he was evil that happen to show up when John was at his lowest.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with your supernatural theory is the deaths of the lady, old man, and cop at the dinner. John could not have done that because he was will at the police station being questioned when that happened. The whistling indeed was John, thats why it started before the screen goes completely black. I believe that at some point in the night or in the near future, he killed her. His whole telling that cops he didn't believe Richie's story was just a front. A front to get them leave. so he could kill her. JMO
ReplyDeleteNo one mentions the evil look Richie gives the children before they ran upstairs... creeeepy.
ReplyDeleteThis movie was so cheesy that it actually made me laugh out loud on multiple occasions. And after reading most of the reviews I have come to the obvious conclusion that people in general are uneducated, moronic, delusional and really bad at basic spelling and grammar.
ReplyDeleteRichie was a guy possessed by a "demon" that could only kill people that he categorized as "evil". That's the reason he didn't kill John, John's wife and children, Tammy, and the young girl with the dog in the rain. About 47 minutes after the movie started, when John confronts him about the killings, he replies: "The world hurts people, John. I come in after the hurt. All I do is kill people who are already dead."; which can be understood as the world making people make wrong choices, thus becoming “evil”, and therefore giving him the right to kill them (they were already dead to him as soon as they crossed the boundaries of good and became evil).
ReplyDeleteSO this possessed Richie was driving around, looking for more "evil" people to kill and he finds John, someone he categorizes as "good", which makes it impossible for Richie to kill him. And Richie gets intrigued, wondering how does this guy hit rock bottom and still continues acting nice. At this point he decides to take John with him and put him to situations that could make him become an "evil" person. He keeps on pushing, but John still doesn't crack; he talks bad to John, drives like crazy, he talks bad to other people, parks in the handicap place, he stops his car just near a bar where John's former boss and co-workers are celebrating, he asks John if he wants to "...go in there and kick his head inside out" (when talking about his former boss), he says "Let's rip his fucking throat out" when the truck driver stops in front of them. Nothing seems to work so he releases John so he could be arrested and take the blame for all the murders. He keeps on escalating to turn John into an "evil" person. Through the whole thing John manages to keep it straight and not cross the border which separates "good" from "evil" (from the "demon"'s point of view).
Finally he tells John that his own wife was having an affair and hired Richie to kill him (even though he states that he never lied to John, he had already done it before at least two times that I can remember (and there are probably more), when he said he was taking John to the Hospital, and when he said he needed a ride to the police park to get his car back. Both times he was just manipulating John to take him where he could put John to another "good vs evil" test (first time he takes him near the irritating donuts lady and near the bar, second time just to take him into the road where the truck driver would appear and later to the farm). Telling him he was a hired assassin was just another way of manipulating John (though it might be possible that the wife was really having an affair).
At this point John snaps, and the demon sees "evil" inside John. Richie even claims it (about 01:18:30 runtime), by saying "Now you got the instinct, just like me." (meaning John had turned "evil", just like Richie).
Richie ends up dying and the demon passes to “evil” John's body.
In the final scene when John and his wife are lying down you can hear John, now possessed by the demon, whistling just like Richie used to do.
Notes: the demon/whistle is a reference to another movie, "Fallen", starring Denzel Washington, in which people possessed would sing a song :"time...is on my side, yes it is.." (instead of whistling), and also, in "Fallen", same as here, the demon could only possess those who were bad (in this one it appears that the demon can also only kill evil people). Even the whole thing of the police being after the wrong guy (by going after John) happens in "Fallen", and again, just like in "Fallen", at the end of the movie the audience gets a hint that indicates the demon is still alive. Looks like the writers of "Meeting Evil" found themselves some "inspiration" (were they aware of it or not!). Watch "Fallen" if you haven't (which is way better).
I should see this movie!
ReplyDeletethoughts... The name of the movie is "Meeting Evil", obviously John is not an "evil" guy by any means, he has done some bad things in the past such as cheat on his wife which seems to be the worst of it but still a family man. When Richie (who is evil and seems more like a demon than human) states that the two have a lot more in common than John thinks, it could mean that John is finally coming face to face with his own demons being that John is hitting an all time low. Richie continuously challenges John's moral compass and even enjoys the same drink selection giving them common ground, as well. John is also white while Richie is black (I only state that to show a more opposite view of the two men) light vs. dark, yin and yang.... Just a thought
ReplyDeleteI think Richie was an evil spirit that jumped into John upon his "death". I also believe John plans to handle his wife on his own terms. Here is the only thing that I find peculiar. Where does the daughter fit in all of this? She was "odd" and seem to have a strange connection to her mother that her brother was not privy to...hmmm.
ReplyDeleteI believe I have it figured out. Richie is supernatural but more than likely is the devil himself. He mentions a few times about knowing things that he couldn't know (the coming rain and the people trying to do him harm), so being supernatural is a good possibility. But over and over again he tells John that the WORLD is evil, not him and he just kills people that are already dead. So him being hired by the wife to kill John is a yes, but maybe throughout the course of the day realizing that John had not totally given up on life he decides that the wife should be punished instead which fits with her cold and callice attitude throughout the movie. Maybe John was the original target, but the wife became the focus after John would not admit to giving up on life. That would explain why he called her out at dinner and why she tried to stab John, and why she was not happy when John came up out of the water.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to the whistling at the end, it is probable that after taking the bullet to the head Richie's body (vessel) was killed but the demon was not, and under the water it transfered into John. He was staring at the daughter before he went to bed, and remember Richie was the one who tucked them in and said "you have two beautiful kids...you are a very lucky man.". So the demon was maybe jelous of John in that way (Richie also mentions how lucky john is at the gas station and says he doesn't have kids of his own) and is happy to have taken Johns body, and raise kids. The demon taking over John's body is also strongly supported by the look on Johns face while getting into bed and then the whistling when the light goes out. I also think the wife knows something had changed because she is the nervous one at the end, and says is everything going to be okay?"why why would she ask that after the cops cleaned everything up and were leaving the scene?
I do believe that the little girl with the dog had nothing to do with the story other than being a witness to John's kidnapping earl on in the movie. If she was an angelic figure, they didn't pull it off well. Although, if the lead detective is meant to be evil, then it would make sense that she flips him off. It does make sense that the cop is evil with the "fat" comment at the end. If we can agree the wife is evil, and we know Richie was evil, then the only other reference to "fat" was from the cop. Maybe a reference to gluteny a deadly sin.
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Remember, now, Samuel L. Jackson continuously tried to convince him to ‘be a man’, realize what a doormat he’d been, and take control. Yes, Jackson WAS a demon, but he was doing was what demons do – planting seeds.
ReplyDeleteWhat would the guy have gotten if his wife had been arrested? Nothing.
I think he was whistling because he had a better plan, and that’s why he made sure she wasn’t . . .
another interesting point on the good and evil thing, which initially i thought was silly but there are lots spots that could have hints towards it in the movie;
ReplyDeleterichie says: " there little angels and you have 2 of them, you are so lucky." and he says the latter part with some emphasis too.
and he says in the beginning he never cared much for kids or pets.
possible explanation: kids being angels and dogs being able to sense him.... just an interesting thought...
another spot is when he comes to a crossroads, he chooses the wrong way and immediiately "the devil" shows up.
i just noticed this, when they leave the bar john says "i got to get back to my wife", and at that exact same moment a truck almost smashes him, richie saves him from it, and says, "be careful." does he mean be careful of traffic or be careful of his wife....
this is a really cool movie. almost has me watching it back to back to see if i can determine for myself whether or not hes supposed to be supernatural, if its just written that way, or if its an accident and so on. definitly a clever movie,
whats great about this type of movie is thought we never actually see richie kill anyone, in your imagination he becomes a brutally efficient and ruthless ninja assassin. great to be able to thikn for myself and not have Everything completely spoonfed.
if u guys liked this check out the movie Basic, its another mind bender with samuel jackson playing a killer, or is he
The writers of the film hate women. It's always a really simple point when you quit pretending the pretense isnt always...women are the root of evil. Look. It is easy.
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DUSTY!!!!! So your theory says that Richie is of a supernatural being. You also said that brutal truth is his modus operandi. So if truth was his modus operandi, why did he say that johns wife hired him? I mean you said that he tells the truth right? Supporting your theory, it would mean that richie is not supernatural after all. Flawed.
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I think it's all about doppelgangers. Good v's Evil. John is inherently good - similar to the Shakespearean character of Hamlet. But he was blinded and paralysed by his goodness. Richie is the opposite to this in all respects, and he is the evil part. Richie is the opposite of paralysed and wreaks havoc on most everyone, like a petulant child. He is so consumed by anger he lashes out without thinking.So if they are two parts of the same person - they have suffered many injustices, which John accepts with politeness, Richie seeks revenge for.
ReplyDeleteThe wife is definitely a guilty, nasty character. John is unable to see this, as he only sees the good, whilst Richie is only able to see her cruel side (which we see a glimpse of during the interview with police).
I think the final scenes are more of the two doppelgangers become one (fight scene), and able to see each other's point of views. I think that John is able to see his wife for who she is through eyes that can see both good and bad. I think that's why at the end Richie's whistle is heard - simply as a way to explain that he sees her for who she truly is. I think John/Richie will take that nasty, cheating cow and take everything away from her... he will just do it in a far more balanced way than Richie would have liked to have done it! :)
Sorry - just to add. The doppelganger theory would also explain why Richie would know all of John's movements. I also took it as this... being doppelgangers, John would be capable of feeling great anger (seen with the birthday surprise, and when he is burnt by the exhaust pipe), but is very easily placated. Richie is capable of goodness (He hid his intentions from the girl who was witness, also he could have easily hurt John's children).
DeleteI didn't actually like this film, but it was interesting to see some different ideas on who/what. A lot of convoluted references to evil is what I think is the most frustrating part. Final note - John always saw his wife in the light, looking beautiful, until Richie was killed (when my theory is that the two doppelgangers became one)... then look at the way he sees his wife. The lighting says it all, her eyes are pitted black and she looks evil. That's my theory, but have enjoyed reading others views, too. Thanks Dusty for your thoughtful review... you have obviously got a lot of people interested in your reviews! Looking forward to reading through many more.
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ReplyDeleteListen Everyone, this movie is not about what you think. samuel l jackson is posting a message within the script of this movie. He is screaming that white men have taken away something from black men that can never be repayed and he is right and if you just watch the movie and really listen to it, you will see that this movie tells the story of what it felt like to be dehumanized and treated like an anamal. This is in no way a racial comment but I an saying it was brilliant how it was layed out. all you have to do is listen to the words he says, ....the name ..Ritchie..He's basically telling white people to look out and be scared and rightly so. Nothing can ever repay the bounty that our white ancestors did to african americans. I hope you read this Samuel. All white people are not like the filthy red neck cops you portray...we do Have a soul...
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ReplyDeleteWell the female officer told the head detective the whole little incident she had with John's wife.
ReplyDeleteThe detectives know John's wife really did hire a the guy to kill John, and so does John.
So when the head detective says "Lets get Fat", he is referring back to all the "fat" insults the female officer took from John's wife. In other words he really is just saying, "let the bitch get what she deserves". That is why the female officer looks at the detective and then turns back to look at the house.
The whistling at the end is just symbolism of death coming, as John would probably kill his wife. In fact John may be doing the whistling, just to help him get into the killing mood.
Im not sure if he will kill the kids and than take his life too, but its possible.